ComputerIcon




Smart-phone-or-Tablet.jpg
OR  
ComputerIcon

 


[ this file's actual name is :]
http://shame-on-the-Roman-Catholic-hierarchy.website/
about/REPLACE.htm Smart-phone-or-Tablet.jpg OR ComputerIcon

[ the actual title of this page:]
https://What-would-Jesus-think.info/
about/Christian-salvation_3.htm
Conservatives justify their use of Jesus Christ's last name
by giving a little lip service to Jesus, but
the bulk of their beliefs is from the teaching of Paul of Tarsus
about faith instead of works, rather than Jesus' teaching
about faith proven by "works":

Pages :   1   ~   2   ~   [3]  
 about "Salvation"

{ John 1: 9-14 }:  

" The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.  He was in the world, and the world came into being through him; yet the world did not know him.  he came to what was his own, and his own people did not accept him.  but to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God, who were born, not of blood or of the will of the flesh or of the will of man, but of God.  And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father's only son, full of grace and truth.

For Jesus, faith or belief in Him, wasn't an end in itself, it was the way people identified with Jesus' message of salvation and planned to live accordingly.

{ John 1: 29 }  

" The next day (John the Baptist) saw Jesus coming toward him and declared,  "Here is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"

{ John 3: 1-3 & 9-21}  

" Now there was a Pharisee named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. He came to Jesus by night and said to him,  "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do apart from the presence of God."  Jesus answered him,  "Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above." . . .  9 Nicodemus said to him,  "How can these things be?"  Jesus answered him,  "Are you a teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand these things?  "Very truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know and testify to what we have seen; yet you do not receive our testimony.  If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?  No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.  And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.  "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.  "Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.  Those who believe in him are not condemned; but those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God.  And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil.  For all who do evil hate the light and do not come to the light, so that their deeds may not be exposed.  But those who do what is true come to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that their deeds have been done in God.

As the preceding texts show, faith was important to Jesus, but not in isolation from works!  On the one hand, those whose deeds are good recognize Jesus and "come to the light (i.e. believe in him), so that it may be clearly seen that their deeds have been done in God."   And on the other, those who have faith in Jesus, do what he teaches them to do.

{ 1 Pet.1:17 }  

"The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work."

Some people would like to blame Martin Luther rather than Paul for the debate over faith vs works, but James wasn't arguing with Luther, when he wrote his very forceful and clear repudiation of the doctrine of salvation by faith alone, without works on man's part:

{ James 2: 12-21 & 26}   

"You will be judged on whether or not you are doing what Christ wants you to.  So watch what you do and what you think; for there will be no mercy to those who have shown no mercy.  But if you have been merciful, then God's mercy toward you will win out over his judgment against you.  Dear brothers, what's the use of saying that you have faith and are christians if you aren't proving it by helping others?   will that kind of faith save anyone?
     If you have a friend who is in need of food and clothing, and you say to him,  "Well, good-bye and God bless you; stay warm and eat hearty," and then don't give him clothes or food, what good does that do?   So you see, it isn't enough just to have faith.  You must also do good to prove that you have it.
      Faith that doesn't show itself by good works is no faith at all  –   it is dead and useless.  But someone may well argue,  "You say the way to God is by faith alone, plus nothing;   well, I say that good works are important too, for without works you can't prove whether you have faith or not; but anyone can see that I have faith by the way I act."   Are there still some among you who hold that "only believing" is enough?   Believing in one God?   Well, remember that the demons believe this too – so strongly that they tremble in terror!   Fool!   When will you ever learn that "believing" is useless without doing what God wants you to?   Faith that does not result in good deeds is not real faith.  Just as the body is dead when there is no spirit in it, so faith is dead if it is not the kind that results in good deeds."

John the Baptist's message was to repent of past sins, to be cleansed through baptism, and to perform good works instead of evil ones throughout one's life

{ Luke 3: 7 -18 }  

John said to the crowds that came out to be baptized by him,  "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?  bear fruits worthy of repentance.  Do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our ancestor';  for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham.  Even now the ax is lying at the root of the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."  And the crowds asked him,  "what then should we do?"
        In reply he said to them,  "whoever has two coats must share with anyone who has none; and whoever has food must do likewise."  Even tax collectors came to be baptized, and they asked him,  "Teacher, what should we do?"  He said to them,  "Collect no more than the amount prescribed for you."  Soldiers also asked him,  "And we, what should we do?"  He said to them,  "Do not extort money from anyone by threats or false accusation, and be satisfied with your wages."  As the people were filled with expectation, and all were questioning in their hearts concerning John, whether he might be the Messiah,  John answered all of them by saying,  "I baptize you with water; but one who is more powerful than I is coming; I am not worthy to untie the thong of his sandals.  He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.  his winnowing fork is in his hand, (to separate those destined for reward from those destined for punishment) to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his granary; but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire."  So, with many other exhortations, he proclaimed the good news to the people."

(also recorded in Matthew 3: 9-12 & Mark)

{ John 3 : 31-36 }  

"( John the Baptist said of Jesus : )   He must increase, but I must decrease."  (Didn't Paul do very much the opposite?).  The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks about earthly things.  The one who comes from heaven is above all.  He testifies to what he has seen and heard, yet no one accepts his testimony.  Whoever has accepted his testimony has certified this, that God is true.  He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure.  The Father loves the Son and has placed all things in his hands.  whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure God's wrath.

        John's Book of Revelation puts these words in the mouth of the Judge of mankind :
{ Rev. 2:19 – 29 }  

19 "I know your works – your love, faith, service, and patient endurance.  I know that your last works are greater than the first. . .  And all the churches will know that I am the one who searches minds and hearts, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve."  29 Let anyone who has an ear listen to what the Spirit is saying to the churches."

according to the book of revelation, there can be no doubt that God judges people on the basis of their behavior (works):

{ Rev. 20: 11 – 12 }  

"Then I saw a great white throne and the one who sat on it; the earth and the heaven fled from his presence, and no place was found for them.  And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened.  Also another book was opened, the book of life.  And the dead were judged according to their works, as recorded in the books."

The idea of salvation by faith alone, with grace on god's part replacing works on man's part, may appear to make Jesus more deserving of praise, love, admiration and appreciation.  But Jesus Christ didn't teach it; and for good reason.  (It was either Martin Luther or John Calvin who deliberately "improved" Paul's words "the just shall live by faith" by adding the word "alone." )  This theory makes Christ out to be like the pilot of the air plane to heaven.  All you have to do is "believe", i.e. trust him, and climb aboard, and he will do the rest.  You might as well go to sleep and "leave the flying to Jesus"; because you are saved the minute you "believe", and you are guaranteed a seat not just for the trip but for an eternity in heaven as well.  According to this theory, Jesus has paid for your ticket with his own blood.  Although Jesus is the only man who has ever lived a blameless life, God has allowed this one sinless person to suffer the punishment for everybody else's sins.
        If you believe that teaching, then you are putting your faith in Paul, not in Christ.  What Christ taught was that salvation is very demanding, and that – far from carrying your cross for you – Jesus requires that you pick up your own cross daily and follow him.  Believing in him is not an end in itself, it's simply the step that puts one on the right road, the road of obedience to Christ, which leads to eternal life.
        Do you know why there were so few Christian voices raised in opposition to Hitler, not just during the Holocaust, but in the many years leading up to it?   Lutheran pastor and scholar Dietrich Bonhoeffer thought long and hard about the failure of the Christian community in Germany and then wrote the powerful book The Cost of Discipleship.  His rare understanding of the teaching of Christ moved him to raise a lonely voice against the attrocities being perpetrated in a supposedly Christian nation and, like Christ, he was put to death for doing so.
        His insights may explain why many things go wrong in supposedly Christian communities and individuals:
        "Cheap grace is the grace we bestow on ourselves . . .  the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, communion without confession.  Cheap grace is grace without discipleship . . .
        Costly grace is the grace which must be sought again and again, the gift which must be asked for, the door at which a man must knock . . .  It is costly because it costs a man his life, and it is grace because it gives a man the only true life." ( See the whole web page I dedicate to Bonhoeffer's "Cost of Discipleship" at http:/What-would-Jesus-think.info/a_Religious_Issue cheapgrace.html.)
        Is it merely a coincidence that the region of America where Fundamentalism reigns supreme, the region called "the Bible belt", is the region that for hundreds of years practiced and even blessed the slavery of dark-skinned human beings from Africa by the light-skinned "Christians" from Europe who had stollen America from its native population?  Or is it connected with their feeling that "works don't matter"?  If God doesn't save people on the basis of their good works, then can he condemn them on the basis of their bad works?


Those who have held with Paul’s view that it is faith and not works that lead to salvation have found it necessary to denigrate the value of Jesus’ teaching. They claim that since Jesus’ teachings about moral action are impossible for anyone (other than Jesus) to comply with perfectly, that His teachings are nothing more than an example meant to show us how imperfect we all are and how salvation for such imperfect beings is impossible except through the saving grace of faith.
        An example of this can be found in the following quotations from the German Lutheran theologian, Carl Stange :

"Fellowship with God is not achieved through ethical performance. From an ethical standpoint, it is a derogation of the idea of the good to seek its realization by imitating Jesus. The teaching about the ideal.... only serves to make plain the reprehensibility of the human condition... The meaning of the moral demand is not that it gives us the power for the good but rather that it shows us our impotence for the good."

(Bauman, Clarence, The Sermon on the Mount, The Modern Quest for its Meaning, p.177.)

Not even a disastrous civil war was able to move the hard hearts of so-called "Bible belt Christians" to stop persecuting their former slaves.  They simply invented new ways to oppress their former victims, through the enthusiastic public practices of segregation and the only slightly less public practices of the lynch-mobs and the Ku Klux Klan, where all kinds of "respectable" gentlemen and even "clergy" hid beneath white sheets to kill, maim and terrify black people.
        See what passes for "Christian" theology in communities and denominations that have their roots in "the Bible belt", otherwise known as "Dixie", or "the Confederate States of America" : What-would-Jesus-think.info/a_Religious_Issue/christianconservatism.html.
        Is it merely a coincidence that when the Democratic Party turned its back on its former racism, many Bible Belt "Christians" – who had hated the Republican Party so long because it represented "the party of Lincoln" – hastened to switch their allegiance to that party as soon as it had turned itself inside out, and lapped up the racist attitudes which the Democratic Party had vomited?
        Is it merely a coincidence that the "Christian Conservatives" of "the Bible belt" now oppose Affirmative Action and promote school vouchers – which will restore well-financed private (and segregated) "Christian" schools for their own white children, while leaving minorities in increasingly neglected "public" schools?
        Is it merely a coincidence that the states where Conservatives are strongest are the ones with the most minorities in prison,the most minorities being put to death, the most incidences of prison brutality, and the most instances of minorities often being deprived of their right to vote for life, (despite Jesus' warning that when we neglect those in prison, it is him whom we are hurting)?


There's some evidence that Paul himself wouldn't agree with the view that seems to be expressed in many excerpts of Paul that play down the importance of "works" and which are constantly quoted by Fundamentalists.  Here's is what he wrote, for example in

{ Romans 2: 3 – 13 }  

"Do you imagine, whoever you are, that when you judge those who do such things and yet do them yourself, you will escape the judgment of God?  Or do you despise the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience?  Do you not realize that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?   But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath, when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.  For he will repay according to each one's deeds:  to those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;  while for those who are self-seeking and who obey not the truth but wickedness, there will be wrath and fury.
        There will be anguish and distress for everyone who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek.  For God shows no partiality.  All who have sinned apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.  For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous in God's sight, but the doers of the law who will be justified.  When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves.  They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all."

2 Corinthians 5:10 

"All of us must appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each may receive recompense for what has been done in the body, whether good or evil."


There are a lot more problems with Paul's teaching than just the matter of faith vs. works.  While Jesus of Nazareth preached and modelled by his behavior love, understanding, respect for all kinds of people, much - though not all – of Paul's teaching is very different, as you can read in his own words at www.What-would-Jesus-think.info/about_bad-news-Paul.html.

Here's an interesting take
on the famous verse:
{ John 3:16 }

"For God so loved the world that
he "sacrificed" Himself, to Himself,
to appease Himself, and now is just
beside Himself with the idea of torturing
those who don't believe this, for all eternity."

[author unknown]

Pages :   1   ~   2   ~   [3]  
of "Christian salvation"

Take it from Stephen;
there is much more
where this came from, at my
ITYS-Banner website ColbertToldUso.gif
If ever you are moved to critique,
support, or enlighten me,
here's the way to do it :
email image
Rayosun@IToldYouSo.info